philosophy – Coevolving Innovations

Systems Theory, Systems Philosophy, Systems Methodology via Bela H. Banathy (1985)

November 15, 2024 daviding

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The International Society for General Systems Research formed circa 1956 became the International Society for the Systems Sciences in 1988. In 1985, Bela H. Banathy organized the annual meeting on the theme of “Systems Inquiring”. Proceedings normally are published in the year following. In 1987, John A. Dillon summarized Banathy’s perspective in the yearbook, General Systems. For easy reading, here’s an excerpt from the yearbook.

— begin excerpt —

EDITORIAL PREFACE

Systems Inquiring

One of the few perquisites which come to the President of the International Society for General Systems Research is that he or she can determine the theme of the Annual Conference. In 1985, President Bela Banathy selected the topic, Systems Inquiring as the focal point of the Conference.

Because his Introduction to that conference represents an excellent, concise description of the whole field of systems science, we shall begin this volume by quoting it here.

“Systems Inquiring involves both conclusion oriented disciplined inquiry or knowledge production and decision oriented disciplined inquiry, which makes use of knowledge produced by systems research and by the various disciplines. Systems Inquiring draws upon the three domains of systems scholarship: systems theory, systems philosophy, and systems methodology.

The program of the 1985 Annual Meeting of the Society embraces the entire scope of Systems Inquiry, by which:
SYSTEMS PHILOSOPHY is explicated and evolved,
SYSTEMS THEORY is defined and formulated through its continuous evolution, and
SYSTEMS METHODOLOGY is pursued as a field of study as well as implemented in a variety of contexts and through a variety of strategies and methods.… Read more (in a new tab)

The International Society for General Systems Research formed circa 1956 became the International Society for the Systems Sciences in 1988. In 1985, Bela H. Banathy organized the annual meeting on the theme of “Systems Inquiring”. Proceedings normally are published in the year following. In 1987, John A. Dillon summarized Banathy’s perspective in the yearbook, General Systems. For easy reading, here’s an excerpt from the yearbook.

— begin excerpt —

EDITORIAL PREFACE

Systems Inquiring

One of the few perquisites which come to the President of the International Society for General Systems Research is that he or she can determine the theme of the Annual Conference. In 1985, President Bela Banathy selected the topic, Systems Inquiring as the focal point of the Conference.

Because his Introduction to that conference represents an excellent, concise description of the whole field of systems science, we shall begin this volume by quoting it here.

“Systems Inquiring involves both conclusion oriented disciplined inquiry or knowledge production and decision oriented disciplined inquiry, which makes use of knowledge produced by systems research and by the various disciplines. Systems Inquiring draws upon the three domains of systems scholarship: systems theory, systems philosophy, and systems methodology.

The program of the 1985 Annual Meeting of the Society embraces the entire scope of Systems Inquiry, by which:
SYSTEMS PHILOSOPHY is explicated and evolved,
SYSTEMS THEORY is defined and formulated through its continuous evolution, and
SYSTEMS METHODOLOGY is pursued as a field of study as well as implemented in a variety of contexts and through a variety of strategies and methods.… Read more (in a new tab)

Resequencing Systems Thinking | U. Hull Centre for Systems Studies | 2024-05-13

August 10, 2024 daviding

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On my May trip through the UK, I accepted an offer to lead an Expert-Led Session at the University of Hull. I had previously been a Research Fellow of the Centre for Systems Studies, but haven’t travelled to the Hull for some years. As we worked out the arrangements, I found out that the seminar wasn’t just an hour lecture, but a complete afternoon.

The Systems Changes Learning Circle is now in year 6 of an espoused 10-year journey. The target audience of graduate students and faculty, with the luxury of time for lecturing and discussing, allowed for an extended exposition of our learning on systems changes. The ouline covered:

A. Initiating
B. Philosophizing
C. Theorizing
D. Practising
E. Continuing

This series of 4 recordings is available as a playlist on Youtube. We started off mostly with reviewing slides, and then had progressed to more interactive discussion later in the day. With the audio recordings, the presentation slides (including movies) were resynchronized as post-production.

This presentation segments are downloadable from this website, as well as from the Internet Archive .

Video	May 13, 2024 — H.264 MP4
Part 1 (58m02s)	[20240513_1231_UHull_Ing ResequencingSystemsThinking_Part1of4_1203kpbs.m4v] (HD 1203kbps 573MB) [on the Internet Archive] 00:00 Welcome by Amanda Gregory 03:15 A. Initiating 09:35 B. Philosophizing 10:52 B1. ↓ Metaphilosophy; ↑ Postcolonial Constructionist 29:53 B2. ↓ Behavioral Structuralist; ↑ Ecological Processualist 38:08 B3. ↓ Progress → Ideals; ↑ (Con)textualism-Dyadicism 56:23 B4. Exercise: ↓ Structure then process; ↑ Process then structure
Part 2 (27m58s)	[20240513_1350_UHull_Ing ResequencingSystemsThinking_Part2of4_0968kbps.m4v

… Read more (in a new tab)

On my May trip through the UK, I accepted an offer to lead an Expert-Led Session at the University of Hull. I had previously been a Research Fellow of the Centre for Systems Studies, but haven’t travelled to the Hull for some years. As we worked out the arrangements, I found out that the seminar wasn’t just an hour lecture, but a complete afternoon.

The Systems Changes Learning Circle is now in year 6 of an espoused 10-year journey. The target audience of graduate students and faculty, with the luxury of time for lecturing and discussing, allowed for an extended exposition of our learning on systems changes. The ouline covered:

A. Initiating
B. Philosophizing
C. Theorizing
D. Practising
E. Continuing

This series of 4 recordings is available as a playlist on Youtube. We started off mostly with reviewing slides, and then had progressed to more interactive discussion later in the day. With the audio recordings, the presentation slides (including movies) were resynchronized as post-production.

This presentation segments are downloadable from this website, as well as from the Internet Archive .

Video	May 13, 2024 — H.264 MP4
Part 1 (58m02s)	[20240513_1231_UHull_Ing ResequencingSystemsThinking_Part1of4_1203kpbs.m4v] (HD 1203kbps 573MB) [on the Internet Archive] 00:00 Welcome by Amanda Gregory 03:15 A. Initiating 09:35 B. Philosophizing 10:52 B1. ↓ Metaphilosophy; ↑ Postcolonial Constructionist 29:53 B2. ↓ Behavioral Structuralist; ↑ Ecological Processualist 38:08 B3. ↓ Progress → Ideals; ↑ (Con)textualism-Dyadicism 56:23 B4. Exercise: ↓ Structure then process; ↑ Process then structure
Part 2 (27m58s)	[20240513_1350_UHull_Ing ResequencingSystemsThinking_Part2of4_0968kbps.m4v

… Read more (in a new tab)

Yinyang and Daojia into Systems Thinking through Changes | EQ Lab Dialogic Drinks | 2024-05-02/03

August 1, 2024 daviding

1 Comment

Reading a theorist who espouses the dao (tao) in their systems work? Here’s a challenge: is the writer referring to daojia, or daojiao?

Daojiao 道教 is religious daoism, gaining legitimacy only with the Tang dynasty (712-758 CE), after many centuries with the religion of Confucianism as dominant.
Classical Chinese philosophy is hard to interpret even by Chinese literati, because standardized writing didn’t occur until the Qin dynasty, circa 221 BCE.
Daojia 道家 is philosophical daoism, associated with the DaoDeJing (translated as the “Classic of the Way, and the Classical of Virtue”, also known as the Laozi, dating back to 300-400 BCE.
During the Eastern Zhou dynasty (771-256 BCE), there were six philosophical lineages, including the Yinyang School.
- According to Sima Tan, the six philosophical lineages were (i) Yinyang; (ii) Confucian; (iii) Mohist; (iv) Legalist; (v) Schoolf of Names; and (vi) Daoist

Yinyang and daojia are considerably older than daojiao. The Systems Changes Learning Circle is most interested in philosophy of science, with a concrete application in Classical Chinese Medicine (CCM). Yinyang is foundational in CCM, and religion doesn’t enter into the science of medicine, unless the inquirer wants to delve into the question of “what is nature”?

After the EQ Lab session of Dialogic Drinks, in April on “From Unfreezing-Refreezing, to Systems Changes Learning“, I challenged myself to see if I could create an presentation on Chinese philosophy of science that might be understandable to those of us trained in the Western sciences. … Read more (in a new tab)

Reading a theorist who espouses the dao (tao) in their systems work? Here’s a challenge: is the writer referring to daojia, or daojiao?

Daojiao 道教 is religious daoism, gaining legitimacy only with the Tang dynasty (712-758 CE), after many centuries with the religion of Confucianism as dominant.
Classical Chinese philosophy is hard to interpret even by Chinese literati, because standardized writing didn’t occur until the Qin dynasty, circa 221 BCE.
Daojia 道家 is philosophical daoism, associated with the DaoDeJing (translated as the “Classic of the Way, and the Classical of Virtue”, also known as the Laozi, dating back to 300-400 BCE.
During the Eastern Zhou dynasty (771-256 BCE), there were six philosophical lineages, including the Yinyang School.
- According to Sima Tan, the six philosophical lineages were (i) Yinyang; (ii) Confucian; (iii) Mohist; (iv) Legalist; (v) Schoolf of Names; and (vi) Daoist

Yinyang and daojia are considerably older than daojiao. The Systems Changes Learning Circle is most interested in philosophy of science, with a concrete application in Classical Chinese Medicine (CCM). Yinyang is foundational in CCM, and religion doesn’t enter into the science of medicine, unless the inquirer wants to delve into the question of “what is nature”?

After the EQ Lab session of Dialogic Drinks, in April on “From Unfreezing-Refreezing, to Systems Changes Learning“, I challenged myself to see if I could create an presentation on Chinese philosophy of science that might be understandable to those of us trained in the Western sciences. … Read more (in a new tab)

Reframing Systems Thinking for Systems Changes: Sciencing and Philosophizing from Pragmatism towards Processes as Rhythms | JISSS

February 1, 2024 daviding

0 Comments

An article on “sciencing and philosophizing”, coauthored by Gary S. Metcalf and myself, has been published in the Journal of the International Society for the Systems Sciences, following the ISSS 2023 Kruger Park conference in South Africa, last July. There’s a version cacned on the Coevolving Commons.

This article started in a series of conversations with Gary in early 2023, as he was listening to the history of Pragrmatism as an audiobook of The Metaphysical Club: A Story of Ideas by Louis Menand, written in 2002. Key figures in the development of this philosophy includes William James (1842—1910) and Charles Sanders Peirce (1839—1914). My interests have taken me backwards in time, with C. West Churchman and Russell Ackoff both students of Edgar A. Singer, Jr., who was a student of William James. A thread looking into Stephen C. Pepper, also a student of William James and Ralph Barton Perry, was encouraged by online comments from Michael C. Jackson, OBE. This led to a tracing of philosophical influences from the 1890s to 2000.

With my current research into Classical Chinese philosophy, I was encouraged by an 1993 interview citing Churchman having a similar interest for in exploring alternatives to classical Western philosophy for sciencing on systems.

In conversations with Churchman on the historical sources of systems thinking, he often identified the Chinese I Ching as the oldest systems approach. As an effort to model dynamic processes of changing relationships between different kinds of elements, the I Ching might be seen as a systemic approach, in contrast with the more systematic approach of rationalist Western thought, rooted in the work of Plato and Aristotle.

… Read more (in a new tab)

An article on “sciencing and philosophizing”, coauthored by Gary S. Metcalf and myself, has been published in the Journal of the International Society for the Systems Sciences, following the ISSS 2023 Kruger Park conference in South Africa, last July. There’s a version cacned on the Coevolving Commons.

This article started in a series of conversations with Gary in early 2023, as he was listening to the history of Pragrmatism as an audiobook of The Metaphysical Club: A Story of Ideas by Louis Menand, written in 2002. Key figures in the development of this philosophy includes William James (1842—1910) and Charles Sanders Peirce (1839—1914). My interests have taken me backwards in time, with C. West Churchman and Russell Ackoff both students of Edgar A. Singer, Jr., who was a student of William James. A thread looking into Stephen C. Pepper, also a student of William James and Ralph Barton Perry, was encouraged by online comments from Michael C. Jackson, OBE. This led to a tracing of philosophical influences from the 1890s to 2000.

With my current research into Classical Chinese philosophy, I was encouraged by an 1993 interview citing Churchman having a similar interest for in exploring alternatives to classical Western philosophy for sciencing on systems.

In conversations with Churchman on the historical sources of systems thinking, he often identified the Chinese I Ching as the oldest systems approach. As an effort to model dynamic processes of changing relationships between different kinds of elements, the I Ching might be seen as a systemic approach, in contrast with the more systematic approach of rationalist Western thought, rooted in the work of Plato and Aristotle.

… Read more (in a new tab)

The Sweep-In Process of Systems Science (Churchman)

November 23, 2023 daviding

2 Comments

It the systems sciences are an open system, then learning more and more about systems of interest are foundational. This was called a sweep-in process by C. West Churchman, in the heritage of Edgar A. Singer. Jr. A concise definition is found in the entry on “Experimentalism” in the International Encyclopedia of Systems and Cybernetics:

EXPERIMENTALISM

A methodology of inquiry that assumes the indissoluble interconnection between facts and scientific laws.

Experimentalism has been proposed by E.A. SINGER Jr. and developed by C.W. CHURCHMAN and R.L. ACKOFF. [….]

According to C.W. CHURCHMAN, the “original question becomes more and more complicated, not simpler and simpler. This learning “more and more” is what, following SINGER, I call the “sweep-in process” of systems science” (1981, p.1-2).

CHURCHMAN, C. West. “An Appreciation of E.A. Singer Jr: the first Singer lecture”. Soc. Syst. Science. Dpt, Univ. Pennsylvania, Philadelphia, 1981.

There’s a more detailed exposition on sweeping-in from the last chapter in the 1982 book, Thought and Wisdom. This hard-to-find source is fortunately available on the Internet Archive. An excerpt is provided here, for convenience.

CHAPTER 10: AN APPRECIATION OF EDGAR ARTHUR SINGER, JR.

* Given 12 September 1981 as the First Edgar Arthur Singer, Jr., Lecture of the Busch Center at Wharton School, University of Pennsylvania. This paper was completed in April 1982.

I have selected the title of this chapter rather carefully. An appreciation of someone’s lifetime work is not just an evaluation; it is also a process of adding to and adjusting the results of that lifetime of creation of ideas and a system of philosophy.… Read more (in a new tab)

It the systems sciences are an open system, then learning more and more about systems of interest are foundational. This was called a sweep-in process by C. West Churchman, in the heritage of Edgar A. Singer. Jr. A concise definition is found in the entry on “Experimentalism” in the International Encyclopedia of Systems and Cybernetics:

EXPERIMENTALISM

A methodology of inquiry that assumes the indissoluble interconnection between facts and scientific laws.

Experimentalism has been proposed by E.A. SINGER Jr. and developed by C.W. CHURCHMAN and R.L. ACKOFF. [….]

According to C.W. CHURCHMAN, the “original question becomes more and more complicated, not simpler and simpler. This learning “more and more” is what, following SINGER, I call the “sweep-in process” of systems science” (1981, p.1-2).

CHURCHMAN, C. West. “An Appreciation of E.A. Singer Jr: the first Singer lecture”. Soc. Syst. Science. Dpt, Univ. Pennsylvania, Philadelphia, 1981.

There’s a more detailed exposition on sweeping-in from the last chapter in the 1982 book, Thought and Wisdom. This hard-to-find source is fortunately available on the Internet Archive. An excerpt is provided here, for convenience.

CHAPTER 10: AN APPRECIATION OF EDGAR ARTHUR SINGER, JR.

* Given 12 September 1981 as the First Edgar Arthur Singer, Jr., Lecture of the Busch Center at Wharton School, University of Pennsylvania. This paper was completed in April 1982.

I have selected the title of this chapter rather carefully. An appreciation of someone’s lifetime work is not just an evaluation; it is also a process of adding to and adjusting the results of that lifetime of creation of ideas and a system of philosophy.… Read more (in a new tab)

Sciencing and Philosophizing on Threads in Systems Thinking | Gary S. Metcalf + David Ing | Systems Thinking Ontario 2023-07-10

August 14, 2023 daviding

1 Comment

Digging into philosophies underlying the systems sciences, pragmatism seems to have been a strong historical foundation for some research streams. In ongoing discussions, Gary Metcalf and I have been approaching pragmatism from two directions. Gary has been tracking from mid-1800s forward, listening to the audiobook The Metaphysical Club, with a history of figures living through the American Civil War, seeking alternative approaches to the British and continental European ideas. I have been working backwards on two streams. (1) West Churchman and Russell Ackoff were students of Edgar A. Singer Jr., who was a father of a pragmatic school of thought at the University of Pennsylvania, having previously taught with William James at Harvard University. (2) Eric Trist and Fred Emery, in the development of the Socio-Ecological Systems perspective, track back to Stephen C. Pepper, who studied under Ralph Barton Perry, an associate of William James who is recognized for anthologizing and clarifying James’ writing.

The ISSS Kruger Park 2023 meeting was an opportunity for us to share our work in progress. Tracing the institutional lineages of some of the key figures of interest shows periods when the philosophers and systems scientists had formal appointments to the same places.

Notable institions include Harvard U., U. Pennsylvania, and the Tavistock Institute for Human Relations. The many decades give a sense of the time scales (e.g. Pepper arrived at U.C. Berkeley much before Churchman; Trist and Emery were together at Tavistock, and visited Ackoff at U.… Read more (in a new tab)

Digging into philosophies underlying the systems sciences, pragmatism seems to have been a strong historical foundation for some research streams. In ongoing discussions, Gary Metcalf and I have been approaching pragmatism from two directions. Gary has been tracking from mid-1800s forward, listening to the audiobook The Metaphysical Club, with a history of figures living through the American Civil War, seeking alternative approaches to the British and continental European ideas. I have been working backwards on two streams. (1) West Churchman and Russell Ackoff were students of Edgar A. Singer Jr., who was a father of a pragmatic school of thought at the University of Pennsylvania, having previously taught with William James at Harvard University. (2) Eric Trist and Fred Emery, in the development of the Socio-Ecological Systems perspective, track back to Stephen C. Pepper, who studied under Ralph Barton Perry, an associate of William James who is recognized for anthologizing and clarifying James’ writing.

The ISSS Kruger Park 2023 meeting was an opportunity for us to share our work in progress. Tracing the institutional lineages of some of the key figures of interest shows periods when the philosophers and systems scientists had formal appointments to the same places.

Notable institions include Harvard U., U. Pennsylvania, and the Tavistock Institute for Human Relations. The many decades give a sense of the time scales (e.g. Pepper arrived at U.C. Berkeley much before Churchman; Trist and Emery were together at Tavistock, and visited Ackoff at U.… Read more (in a new tab)

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Systems Theory, Systems Philosophy, Systems Methodology via Bela H. Banathy (1985)

EDITORIAL PREFACE

Systems Inquiring

EDITORIAL PREFACE

Systems Inquiring

Resequencing Systems Thinking | U. Hull Centre for Systems Studies | 2024-05-13

Yinyang and Daojia into Systems Thinking through Changes | EQ Lab Dialogic Drinks | 2024-05-02/03

Reframing Systems Thinking for Systems Changes: Sciencing and Philosophizing from Pragmatism towards Processes as Rhythms | JISSS

The Sweep-In Process of Systems Science (Churchman)

CHAPTER 10: AN APPRECIATION OF EDGAR ARTHUR SINGER, JR.

CHAPTER 10: AN APPRECIATION OF EDGAR ARTHUR SINGER, JR.

Sciencing and Philosophizing on Threads in Systems Thinking | Gary S. Metcalf + David Ing | Systems Thinking Ontario 2023-07-10

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