Coevolving Innovations

… in Business Organizations and Information Technologies

Currently Viewing Posts Tagged coproducers

The producer-product relation, and coproducers in systems theory

In appreciating the systems sciences, it can be important to appreciate distinctions around the producer-product relation and coproducers.  A system — which is conceptually bounded by observer(s) defining a boundary — does not exist independently of its environment.  A system may draw on inputs or resources in its environment.  Changes in the environment may be associated with reactions, responses or proactive reformation (i.e. changes in structure(s)) or transformation (i.e. changes in structure(s) and function(s)).

The most rigourous description of these distinctions is in Ackoff and Emery (1972), but this is a derivation of Ackoff’s original dissertation, and relatively difficult to read.  I happened across a more readable, and helpful summary in Ackoff (1981).

The Machine Age’s commitment to cause and effect was the source of many dilemmas, including the one involving free will. At the turn of the century the American philosopher E. A. Singer, Jr., showed that science had, in effect, been cheating.  It was using two different relationships but calling both cause and effect.  He pointed out, for example, that acorns do not cause oaks because they are not sufficient, even though they are necessary, for oaks.  An acorn thrown into the ocean, or planted in the desert or an Arctic ice cap does not yield an oak.  To call the relationship between an acorn and an oak ‘probabilistic’ or ‘non deterministic causality,’ as many scientists did, was cheating because it is not possible to have a probability other than 1.0 associated with a cause; a cause completely determines its effect. 

Read more (in a new tab)

In appreciating the systems sciences, it can be important to appreciate distinctions around the producer-product relation and coproducers.  A system — which is conceptually bounded by observer(s) defining a boundary — does not exist independently of its environment.  A system may draw on inputs or resources in its environment.  Changes in the environment may be associated with reactions, responses or proactive reformation (i.e. changes in structure(s)) or transformation (i.e. changes in structure(s) and function(s)).

The most rigourous description of these distinctions is in Ackoff and Emery (1972), but this is a derivation of Ackoff’s original dissertation, and relatively difficult to read.  I happened across a more readable, and helpful summary in Ackoff (1981).

The Machine Age’s commitment to cause and effect was the source of many dilemmas, including the one involving free will. At the turn of the century the American philosopher E. A. Singer, Jr., showed that science had, in effect, been cheating.  It was using two different relationships but calling both cause and effect.  He pointed out, for example, that acorns do not cause oaks because they are not sufficient, even though they are necessary, for oaks.  An acorn thrown into the ocean, or planted in the desert or an Arctic ice cap does not yield an oak.  To call the relationship between an acorn and an oak ‘probabilistic’ or ‘non deterministic causality,’ as many scientists did, was cheating because it is not possible to have a probability other than 1.0 associated with a cause; a cause completely determines its effect. 

Read more (in a new tab)
  • RSS qoto.org/@daviding (Mastodon)

    • daviding: “Might we have an indicator that lives for Canadians are at a…” December 21, 2022
      Might we have an indicator that lives for Canadians are at a stress level lower than other countries? Either that, or spouses are just nicer to each other.> Canadian marriages are oddly stable> In 2020 – the most recent year for which data is available – Canada recorded fewer divorces than at any point since […]
    • daviding: “Any country concerned about population decline could learn f…” December 12, 2022
      Any country concerned about population decline could learn from Finland on policies encouraging infertile mothers, balancing personal and societal concerns. > In Finland – where women first gained suffrage, where a woman is now Prime Minister – it is illegal to pay egg donors more than a basic €250 compensation for temporary discomfort (plus the […]
    • daviding: “While institutions are incorporated to live beyond the lifet…” November 29, 2022
      While institutions are incorporated to live beyond the lifetime of a single human being, perhaps fulfilling its mission can lead to a conclusion that the best course is to wind itself down. Courage at the #IveyFoundation , led by #BruceLourie > One of Canada’s largest and oldest philanthropic organizations has decided to wind down and […]
    • daviding: “Reassured that qoto.org is on the Wayback Machine @interneta…” November 27, 2022
      Reassured that qoto.org is on the Wayback Machine @internetarchive .https://web.archive.org/web/20220000000000*/Qoto.org
    • daviding: “Researching #Contextualism, online archive of "#RootMetaphor…” November 26, 2022
      Researching #Contextualism, online archive of "#RootMetaphor: The Live Thought of #StephenCPepper" from Paunch 1980 magazine is helpful. Philosopher of aesthetics a follower of #JohnDewey, contemporary of #KurtLewin, senior to #ThomasKuhn, #EricTrist https://ingbrief.wordpress.com/2022/11/26/root-metaphor-the-live-thought-of-stephen-c-pepper-1980/ #SystemsThinking
  • RSS on IngBrief

  • Recent Posts

  • Archives

  • RSS on daviding.com

  • RSS on Media Queue

  • Meta

  • Creative Commons License
    This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 4.0 International License
    Theme modified from DevDmBootstrap4 by Danny Machal