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Generative AI and Inquiring Systems: Ways of Patterning and Ways of Knowing | Systems Thinking Ontario | 2025-01-08

In the 1970s, five ways of knowing were established by C. West Churchman in The Design of Inquiring Systtems. In the 1990s, his student Ian Mitroff carried on the tradition and extended that work in The Unbounded Mind.  Now in the 2020s, the technology of Generative AI opens up opportunties to query or request responses through chatbot interfaces, drawing from bodies of codified knowledge in a style expressed implicitly or explicitly.  Just as there are multiple ways of knowing, there are multiple ways in which underlying language models can be implemented and/or mixed.

The January 2025 Systems Thinking Ontario session, included:

  • the progression of patterning of information, in a simile of a recipe collection, from the days of cookbooks on library shelves, through the now familiar technologies of search engines and data science, to the new transformer and retrieval augmented generation techniques;
  • some Q+A chat challenges, feeding the same question and observing the differences in responses across (i) OpenAI ChatGPT, (ii) Microsoft Copilot, (iii) Mistral LeChat, (iv) Anthropic Claude, (v) Google NotebookLM, and (vi) Preplexity.ai;
  • five inquiring systems described in a mini-lecture, followed by summarized descrptions by each of the six generative AI products; and
  • a hypothetical scenario requesting the how the five inquiring systems might guide ways of deciding about Small Modular Reactors for Canada.

The discussion closed with an outline of Type 1 errors, Type 2 errors, Type 3 errors, and Type 4 errors, as structured by Ian Mitroff.… Read more (in a new tab)

In the 1970s, five ways of knowing were established by C. West Churchman in The Design of Inquiring Systtems. In the 1990s, his student Ian Mitroff carried on the tradition and extended that work in The Unbounded Mind.  Now in the 2020s, the technology of Generative AI opens up opportunties to query or request responses through chatbot interfaces, drawing from bodies of codified knowledge in a style expressed implicitly or explicitly.  Just as there are multiple ways of knowing, there are multiple ways in which underlying language models can be implemented and/or mixed.

The January 2025 Systems Thinking Ontario session, included:

  • the progression of patterning of information, in a simile of a recipe collection, from the days of cookbooks on library shelves, through the now familiar technologies of search engines and data science, to the new transformer and retrieval augmented generation techniques;
  • some Q+A chat challenges, feeding the same question and observing the differences in responses across (i) OpenAI ChatGPT, (ii) Microsoft Copilot, (iii) Mistral LeChat, (iv) Anthropic Claude, (v) Google NotebookLM, and (vi) Preplexity.ai;
  • five inquiring systems described in a mini-lecture, followed by summarized descrptions by each of the six generative AI products; and
  • a hypothetical scenario requesting the how the five inquiring systems might guide ways of deciding about Small Modular Reactors for Canada.

The discussion closed with an outline of Type 1 errors, Type 2 errors, Type 3 errors, and Type 4 errors, as structured by Ian Mitroff.… Read more (in a new tab)

What Can Systems Thinkers Learn From Civic Tech? | Dorothy Eng + Curtis McCord | 2024-05-18

Civic Tech can be described as projects using technology “for the public good“.  Civic Tech may be related to, but different from Gov Tech.

For the May 2024 Systems Thinking Onrtario, we had two knowledgeable guests in conversation.  Dorothy Eng, executive director of Code for Canada since 2021, related her professional journey from engineering to consulting, and Civic Tech Toronto (with a long history of hacknights and speakers).  Curtis McCord was also involved in Civic Tech Toronto, and completed a Ph.D. dissertation on “Civic Participation and Democratic Experience: Civic Tech in Toronto” in the Faculty of Informqtion Studies at the University of Toronto in 2022.  The session was moderated by Zaid Khan, with some familiar regular attendees contributiong viewpoints.

This recording of the conversation is available on Youtube, with an alternate retention on the Internet Archive .

Video H.264 MP4
May 13
(1h36m)
[20240513_ST-ON_CivicTech DorothyEng_CurtisMcCord.m4v
(1698×826 906kbps 755MB)
[on the Internet Archive]

For those who prefer just to listne, a standalone audio was also created during the meeting.

Audio
May 13
(1h36m)
[20240513_ST-ON_CivicTech DorothyEng_CurtisMcCord.m4a]
(128kbps, 89 MB)
[on the Internet Archive]

A short description of the session follows below, with pre-readings linked on the original abstract.


— begin excerpt —

Civic tech is an approach to bettering public services through technology. It has and continues to be expressed in many forms: a movement, mindset, frameworks, service.… Read more (in a new tab)

Civic Tech can be described as projects using technology “for the public good“.  Civic Tech may be related to, but different from Gov Tech.

For the May 2024 Systems Thinking Onrtario, we had two knowledgeable guests in conversation.  Dorothy Eng, executive director of Code for Canada since 2021, related her professional journey from engineering to consulting, and Civic Tech Toronto (with a long history of hacknights and speakers).  Curtis McCord was also involved in Civic Tech Toronto, and completed a Ph.D. dissertation on “Civic Participation and Democratic Experience: Civic Tech in Toronto” in the Faculty of Informqtion Studies at the University of Toronto in 2022.  The session was moderated by Zaid Khan, with some familiar regular attendees contributiong viewpoints.

This recording of the conversation is available on Youtube, with an alternate retention on the Internet Archive .

Video H.264 MP4
May 13
(1h36m)
[20240513_ST-ON_CivicTech DorothyEng_CurtisMcCord.m4v
(1698×826 906kbps 755MB)
[on the Internet Archive]

For those who prefer just to listne, a standalone audio was also created during the meeting.

Audio
May 13
(1h36m)
[20240513_ST-ON_CivicTech DorothyEng_CurtisMcCord.m4a]
(128kbps, 89 MB)
[on the Internet Archive]

A short description of the session follows below, with pre-readings linked on the original abstract.


— begin excerpt —

Civic tech is an approach to bettering public services through technology. It has and continues to be expressed in many forms: a movement, mindset, frameworks, service.… Read more (in a new tab)

Incremental Adaptation or Generational Shift? | Industry 4.0 to Industry 5.0 | 2024-04

As the book on Industry 4.0 to Industry 5.0 was taking shape in March 2023, I was invited not only to serve as an editor, but also to contribute as an author. The edited volume is the final deliverable for the In4act project centered at the  KTU School of Economics and Business in Kaunas, Lithuania that completed in December 2023.  As the project was winding down, a roundtable discussion with some of the researchers was released.

Industry 4.0 was announced by the European Parliament in 2015, with the funding for research into the impact on management practices and economics following in October 2018.  The EU announcement of Industry 5.0 during 2020 raised questions amongst researchers about how to handle the increased emphasis on human centricity.  Then in fall 2022, the rise of Generative AI with the release of ChatGPT captured the attention of leaders, worldwide.

As a contributor coming from Canada, outside the EU, my research in systems changes provoked a question as to the meaning of 4.0 and 5.0.  While the Industrial Revolution is conventionally regarded as 1.0, there’s a divergence on numberings used around the world. This led me to ask:  what might we learn if we framed a transition from Industry 0.0 to Industry 1.0 and compared to that?  Here’s the abstract.

As Industry 4.0 matures, what’s next? A generational shift to 5.0? Or an incremental adaptation to 4.x? Systems changes may involve both Socio-Technical Systems (STS) changes and Socio-Ecological Systems (SES) changes.

Read more (in a new tab)

Normal Accidents, High Reliability, Wicked Messes (ST-ON 2021-08-09)

Choosing topics for a Systems Thinking Ontario session, it seems as though the term “Normal Accidents” was not one familiar to many, particularly those who were not old enough to recall popularization coinciding with the 1979 movie The China Syndrome.  The interest then on High Reliability Organizations would also be news to most of our usual attendees.  Thus, a session based on readings was announced ….

Have we learned from brushes with disaster, or have we become complacent about complexities in everyday life?

This video has been archived on the Internet Archive .

Video H.264 MP4
August 9
(1h32m)
[20210809_ST-ON_Ing NormalAccidentsHighReliabilityWickedMesses FHD.m4v]
(FHD 578kbps 456MB) [on the Internet Archive]

Audio downloadable onto mobile devices was transcoded from the video into MP3.

Audio
August 9
(1h32m)
[20210809_ST-ON_Ing NormalAccidentsHighReliabilityWickedMesses.mp3]
(90MB)

On March 28, 1979, an accident with a nuclear reactor occurred at Three Mile Island, Pennsylvania. Twelve days earlier, an Academy Awards winning film The China Syndrome had opened with a story fictionalized from a 1975 fire at a nuclear plant in Brown’s Ferry, Alabama, raising public awareness of an issue. For a Presidential Commission on the Accident at Three Mile Island, sociologist Charles Perrow contributed organizational analysis report. On a sabbatical to the Center for Advanced Study in the Behavioral Sciences in 1981-1982, that report expanded to include other high-risk systems, becoming the Normal Accidents book, published in 1984.

In the 1990s, a group at Berkeley initiated by Todd LaPorte noticed some high-hazard organizations who able to consistently manage risks to be failure-free.… Read more (in a new tab)

Choosing topics for a Systems Thinking Ontario session, it seems as though the term “Normal Accidents” was not one familiar to many, particularly those who were not old enough to recall popularization coinciding with the 1979 movie The China Syndrome.  The interest then on High Reliability Organizations would also be news to most of our usual attendees.  Thus, a session based on readings was announced ….

Have we learned from brushes with disaster, or have we become complacent about complexities in everyday life?

This video has been archived on the Internet Archive .

Video H.264 MP4
August 9
(1h32m)
[20210809_ST-ON_Ing NormalAccidentsHighReliabilityWickedMesses FHD.m4v]
(FHD 578kbps 456MB) [on the Internet Archive]

Audio downloadable onto mobile devices was transcoded from the video into MP3.

Audio
August 9
(1h32m)
[20210809_ST-ON_Ing NormalAccidentsHighReliabilityWickedMesses.mp3]
(90MB)

On March 28, 1979, an accident with a nuclear reactor occurred at Three Mile Island, Pennsylvania. Twelve days earlier, an Academy Awards winning film The China Syndrome had opened with a story fictionalized from a 1975 fire at a nuclear plant in Brown’s Ferry, Alabama, raising public awareness of an issue. For a Presidential Commission on the Accident at Three Mile Island, sociologist Charles Perrow contributed organizational analysis report. On a sabbatical to the Center for Advanced Study in the Behavioral Sciences in 1981-1982, that report expanded to include other high-risk systems, becoming the Normal Accidents book, published in 1984.

In the 1990s, a group at Berkeley initiated by Todd LaPorte noticed some high-hazard organizations who able to consistently manage risks to be failure-free.… Read more (in a new tab)

Open Learning Commons, with the Digital Life Collective

With governance of online communications a problematique, the Systems Changes learning circle has actively been advancing our collaborations on the Open Learning Commons as an open platform, and the Digital Life Collective for semi-private communications.  Complementing the Systems Community of Inquiry, this combination of technologies presents alternatives for Systems Thinking communities who are uncomfortable with the terms and conditions of commercial providers (e.g. Facebook, LinkedIn).

The systems sciences community was invited to participate in workshops at the ISSS 2019 Corvallis meeting in June.

The governance of the Open Learning Commons operates under Creative Commons licensing.  The Digital Life Collective operates globally as a member-owned platform cooperative, incorporated under a UK jurisdiction.

Joining these online platforms may not be as convenient as having a commercial enterprise “take care” of communications amongst individuals.  While I personally participate (and am named in groups of administrators) on most major social platforms involving systems thinking, my depth of involvement is consciously selective based on terms and conditions.  On a Dec. 23 thread on The Ecology of Systems Thinking group on Facebook, I responded to some questions, and have permission to repost the exchange publicly.

With governance of online communications a problematique, the Systems Changes learning circle has actively been advancing our collaborations on the Open Learning Commons as an open platform, and the Digital Life Collective for semi-private communications.  Complementing the Systems Community of Inquiry, this combination of technologies presents alternatives for Systems Thinking communities who are uncomfortable with the terms and conditions of commercial providers (e.g. Facebook, LinkedIn).

The systems sciences community was invited to participate in workshops at the ISSS 2019 Corvallis meeting in June.

The governance of the Open Learning Commons operates under Creative Commons licensing.  The Digital Life Collective operates globally as a member-owned platform cooperative, incorporated under a UK jurisdiction.

Joining these online platforms may not be as convenient as having a commercial enterprise “take care” of communications amongst individuals.  While I personally participate (and am named in groups of administrators) on most major social platforms involving systems thinking, my depth of involvement is consciously selective based on terms and conditions.  On a Dec. 23 thread on The Ecology of Systems Thinking group on Facebook, I responded to some questions, and have permission to repost the exchange publicly.

A federated wiki site on cPanel

Since my cPanel shared hosting provider supports node.js hosting, installing a federated wiki site beside the usual Softaculous packages is an option. The app requires node.js, and there is a variety of ways to deploy that.

In 2014, I had installed a federated wiki site on Openshift, but then didn’t maintain it as other priorities surfaced.  The site is now available at http://wiki.coevolving.com, and the prior content has been restored.

The installation isn’t a one-button procedure.  However, an administator comfortable with opening an SSH terminal onto your shared hosting account should be able to follow the steps below.  (If you have problems, the federated wiki community hangs out in a room on matrix.org).

A. Creating a Subdomain

(1) Through your browser, from cPanel … Domains … , create a Subdomain.

  • As an example, I can create a Subdomain wiki in the Domain coevolving.com, that will actually be stored in my Home (Document Root) as a wiki.coevolving.com directory.

Subdomain_CreateASubdomain

B. Installing Federated Wiki

(2) From cPanel … Software … Setup Node.js App.

  • In the Web Applications list, Create Application.  As an example, set:
      • Node.js version: 10.11.0
      • Application mode: Production
      • Application root: wiki.coevolving.com
      • Application URL: wiki.coevolving.com
      • Application startup: app.js
  • (If you leave the Application startup field blank, app.js automatically fills in as the default)

NodeJs_CreateApplication

  • At this point, the node.js environment is not yet activated, as the package.json has not yet been downloaded, and the Run NPM Install button is greyed out.
Read more (in a new tab)

Since my cPanel shared hosting provider supports node.js hosting, installing a federated wiki site beside the usual Softaculous packages is an option. The app requires node.js, and there is a variety of ways to deploy that.

In 2014, I had installed a federated wiki site on Openshift, but then didn’t maintain it as other priorities surfaced.  The site is now available at http://wiki.coevolving.com, and the prior content has been restored.

The installation isn’t a one-button procedure.  However, an administator comfortable with opening an SSH terminal onto your shared hosting account should be able to follow the steps below.  (If you have problems, the federated wiki community hangs out in a room on matrix.org).

A. Creating a Subdomain

(1) Through your browser, from cPanel … Domains … , create a Subdomain.

  • As an example, I can create a Subdomain wiki in the Domain coevolving.com, that will actually be stored in my Home (Document Root) as a wiki.coevolving.com directory.

Subdomain_CreateASubdomain

B. Installing Federated Wiki

(2) From cPanel … Software … Setup Node.js App.

  • In the Web Applications list, Create Application.  As an example, set:
      • Node.js version: 10.11.0
      • Application mode: Production
      • Application root: wiki.coevolving.com
      • Application URL: wiki.coevolving.com
      • Application startup: app.js
  • (If you leave the Application startup field blank, app.js automatically fills in as the default)

NodeJs_CreateApplication

  • At this point, the node.js environment is not yet activated, as the package.json has not yet been downloaded, and the Run NPM Install button is greyed out.
Read more (in a new tab)
  • RSS qoto.org/@daviding (Mastodon)

    • Jan 09, 2025, 06:02 January 9, 2025
      Web recording of "Generative AI and Inquiring Systems: Ways of Patterning and Ways of Knowing" from #SystemsThinking Ontario. Leisurely dialogue and live challenge demos with ChatGPT, Copilot, Claude, Mistral LeChat, NotebookLM, Perplexity. https://coevolving.com/blogs/index.php/archive/gen-ai-inquiring-systems/
    • Dec 31, 2024, 01:15 December 31, 2024
      Proceedings published for "Reifying Socio-Technical and Socio-Ecological Perspectives for Systems Changes: From rearranging objects to repacing rhythms” in CEUR-WS for STPIS 2024. More details than the 15-minute presentation in August. https://coevolving.com/blogs/index.php/archive/stpis-2024-proceedings-reifying-socio-technical-and-socio-ecological-perspectives-for-systems-changes/
    • Dec 19, 2024, 13:00 December 19, 2024
      From the 1982 publication of _Organizations: Rational, Natural, and Open Systems_, W. Richard Scott in 2004 reflected back on the history of organizational sociology.> Before open system ideas, organizational scholars had concentrated on actors (workers, work groups, managers) and processes (motivation, cohesion, control) within organizations. Scant attention was accorded to the environment within which the […]
    • Dec 19, 2024, 12:58 December 19, 2024
      For those interested in detailed distinctions between systems approach, systems thinking, General Systems Theory, system science, etc, Aleksandra A. Nikiforova (Lomonosov Moscow State University) started an entry in the Encyclopedia of Knowledge Organization in 2022 that has been revised to 2024. https://www.isko.org/cyclo/systems .The International Society for Knowledge Organization is a “scholarly society devoted to the […]
    • Dec 15, 2024, 10:28 December 15, 2024
      The Future of Life Institute Safety Index is criticized by Mark Daley as too narrow, with an implicit bias disfavoring open sourcing.> The “Future of Life Institute” released their FLI Safety Index this week. [....] > By celebrating only those models that impose rigid controls on allowable thought and scorning those that grant the user […]
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    • Notion of Change in the Yijing | JeeLoo Lin 2017
      The appreciation of change is different in Western philosophy than in classical Chinese philosophy. JeeLoo Lin published a concise contrast on differences. Let me parse the Introduction to the journal article, that is so clearly written. The Chinese theory of time is built into a language that is tenseless. The Yijing (Book of Changes) there […]
    • World Hypotheses (Stephen C. Pepper) as a pluralist philosophy [Rescher, 1994]
      In trying to place the World Hypotheses work of Stephen C. Pepper (with multiple root metaphors), Nicholas Rescher provides a helpful positioning. — begin paste — Philosophical perspectivism maintains that substantive philosophical positions can be maintained only from a “perspective” of some sort. But what sort? Clearly different sorts of perspectives can be conceived of, […]
    • The Nature and Application of the Daodejing | Ames and Hall (2003)
      Ames and Hall (2003) provide some tips for those studyng the DaoDeJing.
    • Diachronic, diachrony
      Finding proper words to express system(s) change(s) can be a challenge. One alternative could be diachrony. The Oxford English dictionary provides two definitions for diachronic, the first one most generally related to time. (The second is linguistic method) diachronic ADJECTIVE Oxford English Dictionary, s.v. “diachronic (adj.), sense 1,” July 2023, https://doi.org/10.1093/OED/3691792233. For completeness, prochronic relates “to […]
    • Introduction, “Systems Thinking: Selected Readings, volume 2”, edited by F. E. Emery (1981)
      The selection of readings in the “Introduction” to Systems Thinking: Selected Readings, volume 2, Penguin (1981), edited by Fred E. Emery, reflects a turn from 1969 when a general systems theory was more fully entertained, towards an urgency towards changes in the world that were present in 1981. Systems thinking was again emphasized in contrast […]
    • Introduction, “Systems Thinking: Selected Readings”, edited by F. E. Emery (1969)
      In reviewing the original introduction for Systems Thinking: Selected Readings in the 1969 Penguin paperback, there’s a few threads that I only recognize, many years later. The tables of contents (disambiguating various editions) were previously listed as 1969, 1981 Emery, System Thinking: Selected Readings. — begin paste — Introduction In the selection of papers for this […]
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    • What to Do When It’s Too Late | David L. Hawk | 2024
      David L. Hawk (American management theorist, architect, and systems scientist) has been hosting a weekly television show broadcast on Bold Brave Tv from the New York area on Wednesdays 6pm ET, remotely from his home in Iowa. Live, callers can join…Read more ›
    • 2021/06/17 Keekok Lee | Philosophy of Chinese Medicine 2
      Following the first day lecture on Philosophy of Chinese Medicine 1 for the Global University for Sustainability, Keekok Lee continued on a second day on some topics: * Anatomy as structure; physiology as function (and process); * Process ontology, and thing ontology; * Qi ju as qi-in-concentrating mode, and qi san as qi-in-dissipsating mode; and […]
    • 2021/06/16 Keekok Lee | Philosophy of Chinese Medicine 1
      The philosophy of science underlying Classical Chinese Medicine, in this lecture by Keekok Lee, provides insights into ways in which systems change may be approached, in a process ontology in contrast to the thing ontology underlying Western BioMedicine. Read more ›
    • 2021/02/02 To Understand This Era, You Need to Think in Systems | Zeynep Tufekci with Ezra Klein | New York Times
      In conversation, @zeynep with @ezraklein reveal authentic #SystemsThinking in (i) appreciating that “science” is constructed by human collectives, (ii) the west orients towards individual outcomes rather than population levels; and (iii) there’s an over-emphasis on problems of the moment, and…Read more ›
    • 2019/04/09 Art as a discipline of inquiry | Tim Ingold (web video)
      In the question-answer period after the lecture, #TimIngold proposes art as a discipline of inquiry, rather than ethnography. This refers to his thinking On Human Correspondence. — begin paste — [75m26s question] I am curious to know what art, or…Read more ›
    • 2019/10/16 | “Bubbles, Golden Ages, and Tech Revolutions” | Carlota Perez
      How might our society show value for the long term, over the short term? Could we think about taxation over time, asks @carlotaprzperez in an interview: 92% for 1 day; 80% within 1 month; 50%-60% tax for 1 year; zero tax for 10 years.Read more ›
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